Curse

osakaaet1 · Jun 08, 2005, 12:23 AM // 00:23

On another forum, we've gotten into a debate on how much damage a ranger can do with one bowshot in high end PvP. One guy claimed he could regularly do 80-100 on warriors with one shot.
I'm sorry, I couldn't see that happening with an 80 AL.
Anyways, he produced a screenshot of PvP with a 114 shot on a monk:

http://img291.echo.cx/my.php?image=shot11wf.png

Now of course a monk isn't a warrior so he still didn't really back up his claim and also, if that 114 shot was the result of special skills, he just can't spam that sort of damage with a ranger.

Anyway...how much regular damage is a lvl 20 ranger doing in PvP and what sort of skill combos give rangers a decent attacking rate with good damage? I need to settle this whole "my uber-ranger does 80 damage in one shot" business...
I need an insight into the reality of ranger bow damage in PvP.

Elythor · Jun 08, 2005, 01:01 AM // 01:01

Seems like that guy is playing in the Arena, which means he could be hitting a lowbie caster with non-Draknor armor.

Kershent · Jun 08, 2005, 03:20 AM // 03:20

Not to mention that he could've landed a critical hit. Sixty damage isn't unheard of with a skill like Power shot, a good bow, and a low-armor opponent.

ComMan · Jun 08, 2005, 03:39 AM // 03:39

At the moment, I average about 33 Damage to warrios with Penetrating shot, less than 10 with a regular attack. If people really can outdamage warriors with just their bows, then I want to know how.

I REALLY want those armor penetration upgrades.

Zeru · Jun 08, 2005, 04:50 AM // 04:50

I'll try to keep this simple, so there won't be stuff like JI&+5 vampiric which is harder to calculate and show and alternating barrage/dual shot or kindle arrows and such preps. Short bows/Half Moons do best damage at 1 shot per 2 seconds. Max bows will do around 15 dps going from an older chart.

Now say you have a conjure for 10 damage, which is reasonable. Add in favorable winds for +6 more damage. For high dps and very simple calculations spammable Barrage will do. Barrage is +13 (12 marks obviously) per shot, just assuming 1 target. So basically that's 44 dps. Decent I guess but not that great. Keeping Tigers Fury up 80% of the time is not difficult, so that is a 40% dps boost. That's the real kicker. Boosts it up to 62 dps, which is pretty good. Not the best a Ranger can do but simple and reasonably close.

My first time doing Ranger calcs. I hope I did it right, if not, I would appreciate someone pointing out any errors

Traylorre · Jun 08, 2005, 04:59 AM // 04:59

Not an expert in highend but I know that to fully spam barrage (no wasted time inbetween shots) you'll have to use serpents quickness to increase the recharge speed (using tiger's fury increases your attack speed but then you'll have to alternate between barrage, then normal, then barrage because barrage takes time to recharge)

Without serpents fury you'll definitely need at least 2 skills to keep spamming at tops speed.

Although Conjure Flame (elem) adds fire dmg... I wonder if Judges Insight (holy dmg +20% AP) would be more effective especially against high AL warriors.

0.02

Zeru · Jun 08, 2005, 05:08 AM // 05:08

short/half moons with TF fire at 1 shot per 1.33 seconds. Considering Barrage has 1 second recharge I shouldn't think that it's an issue, though I have never tried pure barrage spam, just barrage/dual alternation which is close enough. At least unless there's some hidden downtime like the one's ele's have.

I agree that JI and vampiric +5 will beat out a conjure * + that element bowstring, but the latter is much easier to calculate and isn't armor specific

Amnisac · Jun 08, 2005, 05:14 AM // 05:14

I don't want to let out my secret. Although it probably isnt much of a secret.

Favorable Winds
Tiger's Fury
Congure Flame
and the kicker: Melandru's Arrows

Mel's Arrows deal +24 on a player with an enchantment, plus bleed. 80% of the time in PvP, I'm facing soemone with an enchantment. Group this with a armor penetrating shot, and I've hit for 100+ on a fully armored Warrior. I have no screens to prove it, but you must admit it is entirely possible.

Ilya Khan · Jun 08, 2005, 05:29 AM // 05:29

I am not the sharpest knife in the...wait a second, yes I am.
Last time I checked, one can have up to 16 of a given skill (marksmanship?). This can be done by having the regular max (12) +3 from a superior rune (thats 15 now?)+ 1 from the uber leet +1 marks bow string you have (16) tada!
Considering (Or at least I think) that each point of marksmanship you have gives you X amount of damage points, and considering that probably kicks in an extra 4-6 damage on each skill that has been listed, I find it VERY probable that with the grip and perhaps a sundering bow string, 100+ damage can be attained in a few hits (When the grip and sundering string "click" and go off on the same arrow?)
Maybe you can pretend that his bow is +20% damage while hp<50%, that could also account for it. Combine that with customized etc...
It seems very probable that it COULD happen. But would you have to spend hours and hours a day researching this kind of trivial junk to be able to answer this sort of que... I mean to attain these items?
Of course!

Kershent · Jun 08, 2005, 05:36 AM // 05:36

15 is the max for any attribute, Ilya, even though you COULD get it to 16.

Walt · Jun 08, 2005, 05:46 AM // 05:46

You can get 16 for any attribute without your weapon upgrade. 12 (from attribute points) + 3 (superior rune) + 1 (helms).

Sting · Jun 08, 2005, 06:58 AM // 06:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amnisac

Favorable Winds
Tiger's Fury
Congure Flame
and the kicker: Melandru's Arrows.

Just out of curiosity how long does it take to set all this up and how long does it last? Just a quick guess id say 6-10sec for setup, seems like a long time to do this while your team is getting nuked into oblivion.

Willy Rockwell · Jun 08, 2005, 08:32 AM // 08:32

My ranger can easily take -90 damage and sometimes over -100. He has a gold bow and has been performing like this since level 17. His wolf takes -60 with each bite.

Makkert · Jun 08, 2005, 08:58 AM // 08:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Willy Rockwell

My ranger can easily take -90 damage and sometimes over -100. He has a gold bow and has been performing like this since level 17. His wolf takes -60 with each bite.

then back it up with attributesdistribution, skillpicks, etc.

Shadow_Avenger · Jun 08, 2005, 09:18 AM // 09:18

The damage output depends on the level of creature you are fighting, so if you want a accurate representation, please quote damage againt the same level foes.

i.e. @ lvl 20 against a lvl 20 opponent, my ranger does on average 20-40 damage depending on if I have a preperation or not. Using Barrage damage is 15-30 spread amongst the group of enemies that are close together. (i hit each for 15-30) (he has 2 bows, 15-28 dam each, skill req 10-12)
The damage output is comparable to a warrior, although a warrior has, bleed / deep wound and a few hard hitting attacks, that do more damage, but the ranger has the benefit of being at range.
As for Pets? exactly how you work out there damage output? The skills boost base damage, but what is there base damage and how much does beastmastery improve these stats?

Mercury Angel · Jun 08, 2005, 10:09 AM // 10:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Willy Rockwell

My ranger can easily take -90 damage and sometimes over -100. He has a gold bow and has been performing like this since level 17. His wolf takes -60 with each bite.

Not to sound cynical, but how can you even tell what your wolf deals? Last time I had a pet, no damage numbers show up, and I use minions regularly on my necro now, and I KNOW a numerical representation of damage doesn't show up for their hits...

Jun 08, 2005, 11:12 AM // 11:12

you need to know the AL of the monsters you're fighting to even have any chance of an accurate concept of the damage a Ranger is doing to them

Bu7ch · Jun 08, 2005, 12:44 PM // 12:44

I think the highest I've ever hit with a bow was almost 100 but that was on a bone minion at the ring of fire. Just for example (still at the ring), I can spam Barrage and Tiger's Fury and typically get 30-50 per shot on avg against the hydra and flesh golems. It does depend though because I try to use distracting shot and savage shot so I prevent spells. In my limited PvP experiences I've averaged about 25-40 per shot with just Barrage and no other buffs.

I use an Ebon Bow of Shelter and a Shocking Longbow; neither all that special but they seem to work well for me and I haven't found anything else recently.

audioaxes · Jun 08, 2005, 02:36 PM // 14:36

lets just face it: ranger's damage is not good
once i was a level 15 monk against a level 20 ranger in arena with near death health. Was able to dodge the arrows while healing myself back to full and even when he did hit me the damage was pretty weak. Then at full health i starting a hit for hit exchange with my holy staff, only healing once before he did the trademark ranger's cowardly run away.

Weezer_Blue · Jun 08, 2005, 02:40 PM // 14:40

A propper ranger build can do consistant, good damage. At least 60+ per shot, which is more than any mediocre warrior build (using a weapon of the same RoF). Rangers excell in caster interuption and damage, and can survive very well too. The real problem with rangers? There are VERY few rangers that actually have good builds. Which is a requirement if you're to do more than about 35 damage a shot or get in the way of casters. If you want to see a ranger that owns, talk to the reason rangers got nerfed. He works for Negative Zero.